A Long Conversation With Jeff Ray

This afternoon I sat down with SolidWorks CEO Jeff Ray and spoke to him about wide range of things including his childhood, working at IBM and running SolidWorks. Jeff let me in on some behind the scenes action on SolidWorks on the Cloud and how exactly that came about. He also gave some cryptic information on Direct Modeling in the “New” SolidWorks. If you are a SolidWorks customer, I think you will find this conversation very interesting.

Deelip: Tell me something about your childhood, education and time before you started working.

Jeff: I was raised in a way that is a little untraditional. My father was in the military. He was a pilot in the US air force and then became a navigator and finally an electronics warfare officer. So we moved around a lot. I went to twelve different schools before I got out of high school. Thanks to the military enviroment that I grew up in, as a child I learned a lot about the incredibly bonds that are built among people. I grew up during the Cold War and there wasn’t the open access to news like how we have it today. I had friends whose fathers got shot down and it was never reported. They just didn’t come home. We never really knew if Dad was going to come back or not. This does kind of shape you a little bit. It changes your priorities. It teaches you not to sweat the small stuff. For me, it meant that I wanted to surround myself with people who have the same values that I had and held themselves up to an extremely high standard because that’s just he way it is in the military. There’s really not a lot of room for sloppiness or laziness when lives are on the line. The concept of teamwork was very much a part of what I grew up along with the concept of self sacrifice as well. For me it meant that I just wanted to find a job one day that would give me that chance. Coming out of high school I was lucky enough to be hired by IBM. I had spent a summer as an intern while I was in college. I was in pre-med at that time and after a summer at IBM I realized that this is a lot more fun than memorizing Latin. So I switched.

Deelip: When was this?

Jeff: In 1977 I got a BS in Ecnomics and a minor in Finance. I was going to change over to Computer Science and the IBM recruitment team told me, “Don’t worry about that. We’ll teach you all you need to know about technology“. But I liked Math so I followed the Bachelor of Science route which was much more Math intensive. I had a great career there.

Deelip: How long did you work at IBM?

Jeff: I worked at IBM for 17 years. I worked primarily in Sales positions. But I was also in a Finance position. I ran CreditCorp operations in the MidWest. I was ExecAssistant to a group Vice President. A variety of different things. After IBM I went to work for a couple of different technology companies after which I had an opportunity to land at SolidWorks. I joined SolidWorks in 2003 as the COO working with John McEleney and then when he retired I took his place in 2007.

Deelip: So how was it working for John McEleney?

Jeff: It was a blast. He was and still is a very generous person with his time and assistance. He is one of those rare executives that has absolutely no ego at all and truly understands the concept of the servant leader. I mean the ideal leader is one who literally serves his people.

Deelip: Usualy the thing with new CEO’s is that when they take charge they do something to make a statement, like shuffle people around, announce new stuff or a new vision. Did you do something like that as well?

Jeff: I didn’t need to make a statement because John had decided a while earlier that he was on a time frame to move on to the next phase of his life. In fact, at that time he was looking at becoming a High School Math teacher.

Deelip: When he was CEO of SolidWorks?

Jeff: Yes, he just loves Math and loves teaching. That was his long term aspiration. Of course, as it turns out, he is running a startup right now. But I fully believe that one day he will go back to school and be a teacher. And he will be a great one. So anyways, when I came in he was preparing me for the job. So there wasn’t a need for some massive changes after I took over. That being said, there were some issues that we were facing at that time. Some challenges that we had to address. I think we were most notably at risk in terms of our long term product strategy. We had been working so hard executing the strategy that we had laid out in the nineties that we weren’t investing the time and energy into looking at where we need to be 10 to 15 years from now. And that is something that our team took on.

Deelip: I guess that also the time when DS got in touch with SolidWorks to work on the cloud stuff.

Jeff: Not really. For a while we were following parallel paths without knowing it. Of course, I was sharing with Bernard my ideas and concerns. But when we launched our project for the future we didn’t launch it by saying “Let’s move to the cloud“. What we said was “Let’s kill SolidWorks the way SolidWorks has killed some other companies“. Now SolidWorks didn’t go into business to kill companies. They went into business to serve user needs. And it just so happenned that some companies couldn’t compete or took a different direction. But my fear was that someone was out there getting ready to do to us what we had done to others. That there were a group of people working in someone’s living room, which is pretty much how Jon Hirschtick and other people started SolidWorks, who were not encumbered by any intertia, momentum, install base, commitment to share holders or anything. They had total freedom like a startup truly does. And they were not bound by the constraints of the technologies that we were using. And so we pulled a small team of R&D people together and told them “We were basically going to spin you out. You are a startup and your job is to kill SolidWorks. Go start a business that uses the technologies available today that solves the csutomer’s problems. The only thing we are going to tell you is that you cannot leave this space.

Deelip: You mean they could not move into something like AEC. They had to stick to MCAD.

Jeff: Correct. We have shipped 1.3 million licenses. But there are still a lot more users out there that are not using our products. So we literally pulled them out and put them in a different building. We put them into a giant incubator site for startups about 5 miles from the office. One of our board members is a venture capitalist and the team had to start presenting to him on their ideas. He treated them like a how a venture capitalist treats someone coming in and saying, “I think I have a cool idea“. They would come up with ideas and he would often tear them apart. Or they would tell him that they would have their first prototype in the X number of months and he would tell them, “You are kidding yourselves. No one will fund that“. So what they came up with was the attractiveness of the online platforms. They already had the list of customer’s needs that had not been served by us or by anyone else. So they went out and looked for technologies, applications, products and markets. The first thing we noticed was that the online gaming market had a lot of the attributes of what we needed. So they ended up buying a whole lot of video games and scattered them all throughout their site. They had big gaming rooms and they went ahead and played World Of Warcraft and do the whole online gaming thing. They developed a whole series of metaphors for what they wanted to build as the next generation platform.

Deelip: How large was this team? And who was heading it?

Jeff: Less than 20 people. At that time they were still reporting to Austin. It was very much like a raw startup. They didn’t have enough people. They didn’t have enough money. They didn’t have all the fancy systems.

Deelip: And parallel to this DS was trying to do the same thing.

Jeff: Yes, and as we started to sit down and talk about things we realized that we were solving the same needs because there is not that much difference in the customers we serve when it comes to design engineers. So that’s when we said, “Let’s start working together“. And we then split up the work.

Deelip: So you are basically saying that you are going to kill SolidWorks, the product as we know it.

Jeff: Yes. But we are not the one who will be killing it. The marketplace will ultimately decide. And that’s what is so much fun about this. When we start shipping the technology in a couple of years time customers are going to have choices. Up until that point when we start shipping the product we don’t really offer them any choices. You can have any flavor as long as you run it on Windows. And by the way, here is the litany of hardware requirements that you need if you really want to optimize your performance. To be able to remove those barriers is liberating. And then the market will decide. The customers will decide when to move and how to move. And that’s the way it should be.

Deelip: So is SolidWorks going to be a lite version of CATIA?

Jeff: No. SolidWorks will not be a lite version of CATIA. The market is not looking for a lite version of CATIA.

Deelip: I ask because one of the applications you showed at SolidWorks World was titled SolidWorks V6. I know that V6 is a platform. But I guess that is what got people thinking.

Jeff: Yes, V6 is not a product. It’s a platform and we have fully embraced the V6 platform. That’s why I stood on stage and said that we are going to use the ENOVIA PLM because that to me is the right online platform. The benefit of that is that now we don’t have two different R&D teams with a big giant Chinese wall between them doing their own things. Now we have an extended team working with pockets of expertise working on the various big or small chunks that need to be done.

Deelip: There is a marked difference between they way SolidWorks and DS are approaching this concept of taking CAD to the Cloud and the way others are doing. In fact, the only other company that has really come out with something is Autodesk. They are not looking at taking CAD itself to the Cloud. But rather taking the stuff around CAD like simulation, rendering, etc. PTC is pointing itself in an opposite direction. They are saying that their customers are not asking for it and that the concept of taking CAD to the Cloud is a solution without a problem. Do you thinking PTC is committing the same mistake for the second time? I mean the first time they thought that there wasn’t a market for a MCAD system on Windows. And then SolidWorks came along.

Jeff: Well, I don’t know and I don’t worry a lot about it. To me what really counts is that in the next 3 to 5 years engineers are going to have two different and legitimate choices. How can that be bad? Do you really want to go shopping for a car and they all look the same, sound the same, perform the same and cost about the same? To me this is going to be very exciting. Some of us will get it right and some of us will miss it. And we’ll let the market decide.

Deelip: What do you make of the recent announcement from PTC regarding killing the Pro/ENGINEER brand?

Jeff: I can’t offer any value judgments on it but I do think it shows a high degree of courage. It’s not easy for anyone who has built a successful sustainable business to do something like that. And let me tell you, there are no people on this planet more loyal than Engineers and Designers. Once you have their trust its an awesome relationship. I just think it took a heck a lot of courage to do what they did. It’s just not a name. People’s lives are defined by that.

Deelip: Would it be fair to say that this new SolidWorks that you are going to come up in the next couple of years is going to have direct modeling capabilities like how it is implemented in other MCAD systems?

Jeff: It will have direct modeling. But it will not be it the way people are doing it today because we are not constrained with Windows.

Deelip: What has Direct Modeling got to do with Windows?

Jeff: You’ll see. That’s all I will say. (smiles)

Deelip: Where do you see SolidWorks 5 years from now?

Jeff: I think there is a large community of people that is not served by us. Just like how in 95 people didn’t know about the SolidWorks community that we have today. If you go back in time and tell people, “Here is a 4000 dollar product and we are going to sell a million of them“, you’d be laughed out of the room. I think this will be the same thing. The platform shift breaks down barriers and it makes technology available to people who didn’t think they could have it before. So there’s going to be a lot more customers. But I can’t tell you who they are because I don’t see them today. We are not calling on them today, much like the vendors in 95 weren’t calling the Windows users either.

Deelip: So you are saying that this new SolidWorks is going to expand the market.

Jeff: Absolutely. Everytime there is a disruption that removes barriers, be it pricing, techology, whatever it may be, you open up your doors to a whole new set of users, a whole new community. Its been proven over and over again.

Deelip: So coming back to Direct Modeling, I guess you are not going to add it to SolidWorks in its present state.

Jeff: You will see us continue to enhance Instant3D. There a lot of things that we can do there and we will continue to do that. The way Direct Modeling is done now is all sexy and nice to demo. But it is a hammer in search of a nail. Our customer’s spend over 70% of their time using SolidWorks. And if you are going to really be respectful of their time, you will need to do the hard research to understand what it is that they are doing and what gets in their way. And its often humbling to realize just how many problems you have created for your users just by the way you have chosen to present your technology.

Deelip: Will this new SolidWorks be based on the V6 PLM backbone.

Jeff: Yes, the online platform will be based on the ENOVIA V6 technology.

Deelip: So just like how CATIA V6 does not have a native file format, I guess the new SolidWorks won’t have one either.

Jeff: I don’t want to comment on that because I don’t want to limit the team in what they are doing. I could make a statement that I feel confortable with today and the team could walk in 6 months from now and say, “Opps! We learned something“. And by the way, around this time last year we had a big debate in the company to decide whether we should show what we did at SolidWorks World 2010. There were two camps. One was of the opinion that we should not show techology that we were not going to ship in the upcoming release. They said, “Why do you want to stir the pot and confuse people?“. The other camp thought that now was the time to do it. They said, “Lets step out of the bridge and set fire to it“. No turning back.

Deelip: So in which camp were you?

Jeff: What did you see on stage? (laughs) But we have no regrets. Our business is doing extremely well. We’ve had our best third quarter in the history of the company. This announcement did not disrupt the business. If anything, it gave customers the comfort that the money they were investing was well spent. I remember one customer from Israel telling me, “I don’t want to look stupid 5 years from now because of the commitment that I’ve made to you today. Now I feel comfortable because I know where you are going“.

Deelip: So at SolidWorks World 2011 are you going to continue with the messaging?

Jeff: No, we’ll show Connect which is a personal data sharing web based V6 technology. This is the first step of online and its serves a market right now that isn’t being served. 85% of the CAD users out there today do not have a PDM system and we think that this is a nice point of entry. We’ll be shipping it in the first quarter. And obviously we’ll be showing SolidWorks 2012 as well. And I think that’s enough.

Deelip: So the next time you bring up SolidWorks on the Cloud, it will actually be working.

Jeff: Yes, people will be able to use it. We have already made our stand and people already know where we are going.

Deelip: Is there anything else that you want to add?

Jeff: Well, this is an incredible time and is the most fun I’ve every had. I can’t believe that I get to work with the people I do and meet the customers I meet. I was on the phone last week with one of our employees in Pennsylvania talking about the miners that were rescued in Chile. That equipment was designed in SolidWorks. Even the drill bit was designed in SolidWorks. In fact, the bit failed during the operation and they had to redesign it on the fly in SolidWorks. Three days later they had the new bit on site in Chile. Those things just blow me away. We simply provide the tools. But to see the way people use them is like having the greatest job in the world. That couple with having the luxury be being very clear of where we are headed for the long term. We are not going to be a one hit wonder. We are not going to bet the business on one platform and just keep milking it. This is a team that has the courage to say, “Lets continue to look at other platforms and serve more people“. Its amazing to get that opportunity. And finally, it amazing to get through a horrible economy and not lay anyone off. And not one of our resellers went out of business. And that means a lot.

  • John

    Great interview Deelip!

  • Matthew

    I agree… excellent interview!

  • http://virtualvector.com burhop

    Good post Deelip. Always interesting to see what is going on elsewhere.

    P.S. Can you get the name of their WoW guild? I might do some raiding tonight :-)

  • Lansing

    Great interview. Run a spell check.

  • http://www.deelip.com Deelip Menezes

    I believe play time is over for them. ;-)

  • http://www.deelip.com Deelip Menezes

    Yeah I will do that later today. I just transcribed and posted. Had to rush to attend the first day of DSCC 2010.

  • Anonymous

    Excellent interview, Deelip!

  • http://twitter.com/allanbehrens Allan Behrens

    Great interview Deelip

  • Nolton

    “Lets continue to look at other platforms” Yes, please! Guess which one I am moving to, even if it takes someone else’s software! 10 years on Windoze is enough for me.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JDUR3EKC2J5TO6SMVXHDYNTZVE sachin

    Excellent Conversation! Thanks Deelip

  • http://www.azonic3d.com/ Bruce Buck

    Most excellent! Very, very informative and intriguing.

  • Neil

    Well it was a decent interview he gave. I sense a reframing of the cloud situation going on but the basic problem hasnt gone away. If I was interested in knowing about stamp collecting I feel I have just talked to someone who knows a lot about horses. It might even be interesting to find out about horses but still my aim was to know more about stamps.
    Letting the market decide is a useful out for people who know and wont face they have screwed up their pursuit big time. Blame the market. Great product but gosh gee we were so unlucky the market didnt pick up on it..and the global economy was wrong..etc…stc..
    Jeff if you are out there reading this you should know if I were your boss I would sack you because you dont have the right clues to be making the decisions you are. OK so you know about horses and you bet on another one from the same stable because a nag called SW won once before but I put my spare change into a stamp collection and although it isnt as thrilling to follow it will accumulative worth as the years go by.

  • http://www.deelip.com Deelip Menezes

    Neil, the fact of the matter is that Jeff’s current boss is firmly behind his decisions and the direction that SolidWorks is headed. ;-)

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  • Todd

    “Lets continue to look at other platforms” Yes, please!

    Very happy to hear that finally there is more open communication between SoliWorks and Catia team, I always felt that SW was pushed on the side, not having access to DS’s goodies, one of the main reasons I personally never bought into SW.

    excellent interview!

  • Neil

    I know. This is the bigger problem. What to do about the interloper?
    I blame myself for this mess. I was running the company well from my arm chair here in NZ for many years and then I slackened off. They completely lost the plot without my direction. ..

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  • Anonymous

    Jeff Ray has a remarkable ability to say nothing of substance but sound like he is making a thoughtful answer to a question. Maybe the problem is with the question? How about some more direct questions. Maybe some history that actually affects the products and the users. Like geometry bugs that have been around for years.
    1. Is SW going to fix projected curves so that they are actually on the surface?
    2. Is SW going to fix the twisted loft problem, the ignore the profile problem, the brocolli shaped loft problem?
    3. Is SW going to fix the shell corner problem?
    4. Is SW going to fix the many surface trim problems?
    5. Is SW going to fix the extrude to body problems.
    6. Is SWgoing to fix boundary surface edge condition problems?
    7. is SW going to make sweeps avoid the brocolli sweep problem?
    8. Is SW going to allow proportional splines to have end conditions?
    9. Is SW going to make sketch rounds not flip into cusps?
    10. is SW going to recognize that all objects have mass and make it a property?

    We could graduate to questions about clouds. I do not care about the current code name of a platform. I care about what the software will do that is useful. Perhaps he could commit to specific goal. Like: Your SW on the cloud geometry will remain accessible and uncorrupted for 10 years.

  • Bhagini

    It’s a great interview, and I’ m still waiting for more about the event.

  • Kesh

    Nice article

  • Amit

    Nice interview Dileep, keep these coming !

  • http://www.cadfanatic.com Brian

    Interesting interview, Deelip!

  • Anna Wood

    Great interview Deelip.

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  • Yagna

    I think the non-windows way of doing direct modeling will be multi-touch!

  • Yagna

    I think the non-windows way of doing direct modeling will be multi-touch!

  • Jeff Ray

    Hi Deelip,

    Thanks for taking the time to meet up. I had fun talking your ear off. I’ll see you in January at SolidWorks World.

  • Davide Ciarloni

    I quote your considerations.
    It seems to me that CAD-vendors do not focus anymore on solving geometric problems. It is like saying “what we do is enough”… On the contrary, I think they are cheating or at least cheating “a bit” with geometry; for instance, when you shell a complex object, do you really think that the shell has a constant offset? Not always true.. please check it on your models. Same defects can be found on fillets that are not really G1 or blendings that are not really G2 and so on…
    The need of high quality shapes (in the market) requires the capability of producing high quality digital models.
    I would like someone to take commitment in solving complex geometric problems, from the ground.

  • Neil

    So Jeff what about some real information about the cloud.
    Give me 10 reasons why I need it with 3-4 sentences for each.
    You must know.
    This will take less effort that a Deelip interview and be more important.
    Perhaps Bernard just took a massive punt again without due diligence but the 10 reasons ought to be on the back of an envelope somewhere…

  • Bigbenbob

    See rickmcwilliams above. It’s questions like that that need to be resolved. People are loyal to a tool that works. If SW works better, loyalty will increase. Cloud or no cloud, wigits will still have to be designed and managed. Do the new bells and whistles and paradigms (e.g., Cloud) help us? My sales manager once asked me, “What do you think is the mose useless new SW gimmick?” I had to think, “where do I start?”…but Live Section came to mind. A solution without a problem. Never used it outside of a demo. NEVER had a customer ask a support question about it.
    Now, adding Revolve up to Surface, THAT is a fundamental improvement. That matters to a designer. Now you just need to make it work with an extended surface like Extrude. The piping improvements in 2011 are REAL improvements that my customers will use. You want SW to be sussessful? Buildings, Ships, Plants, skid packages. Why has SW not made a dent in the market for Ship Constructor or Bentley? People in those worlds are dying for real associative 3D. But we can’t answer the call for them. I’ve had enough of Realview and Direct Editing dog tricks. My customers need deep draw stamping. My customers need part configurations created from the assembly level. Please…the real world still needs better modelling. Please don’t get tired of that.

  • http://www.deelip.com Deelip Menezes

    Jeff, it was nice talking to you at DSCC. I hope to pick your brains a little more at SolidWorks World ;-)

  • Derek Bishop

    Quote “You are a startup and your job is to kill SolidWorks.” End Quote. That is what many of us have suspected for quite a while. Thanks for stating it so explicitly. With people like this at the helm making these kinds of comments you don’t need the competition to kill you off.

    Jeff, your reasons to date are for migrating to the cloud are little more than lame duck excuses. I suspect the real reasons are self serving and will be to the detriment of current users. I’d prefer SolidWorks use my subscription fees to fix the thousands of bugs in the software; employ people to properly check the new software and ensure that it works reliably before it gets released; and employ more engineers and designers with real industrial experience who have an understanding of the real needs of industry.

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  • Niraj Thakur

    Good Job Jeff……And wat a converstion between you n Deelip……U all rock….Hope you plan Suceeds…——–Solidedge Technical Consultant(Niraj Thakur)

  • Niraj Thakur

    Lets See……..

  • Tom

    If you in my situation … would you buy SW2011 ???

    How long will you develop SW as we know it right now (based on Parasolid)?

    When I invest money in SW now, i will go with the future!
    When in the next 3-4 years getting out a new SolidWorks Version (based on Catia) i want to use my existing parts and assembly. I don´t belive that this will happen because SolidWorks and Catia use different technologies and file formats!!!

  • http://twitter.com/matthewwest Matthew West

    Tom,

    SolidWorks as it exists today will continue to be developed and supported for many, many years to come . When we release the new version of SolidWorks announced last year, it will be offered in tandem with the current version. No user will be forced to use the new version, and will be able to stay with the current version of SolidWorks as long as they want.

    Matt / SolidWorks

  • Tom

    Hello Matthew,

    I have to make the decision now, in which product we will invest for more than 25 designers + training and so on.

    AND I won´t buy a software that will freeze in the next 3-4 years.
    Maybe my fear is unjustified – please take it away…
    But I can´t believe that your company invest so much money to keep SWV6 AND SWV1 up-to-date.
    We are one customer that wants to start with SW2011, but when something happen in the next 3-4 years with your products, we have the problems not you.
    I know that I can use SW2011 as long as I want but I won´t do this because I will use a software that is up-to-date and if I have to go with SWV6 because this is the one which is up-to-date I want to handle it with my existing data’s.

    I also see SolidWorks World 2011 on YouTube and hear what your new CEO said several times again and again. “We will always have a locally Desktop installation.”

    BUT can this installation handle my parts and assemblies created on Parasolid Kernel????

  • http://twitter.com/matthewwest Matthew West

    Our current product, which you refer to as SolidWorks V1, will continue to be our main focus for many years to come, and it will continue to function with no changes to the core functionality that exists today. We will continue to update and improve the software–it won’t be left to stagnate–and will continue to do so as long as there’s demand for the product.

    Have you already engaged a local SolidWorks reseller? They should be able to help allay any fears your company may have about investing in SolidWorks for the long-term.

    Matt

  • Tom

    Hi Matt,

    well, that´s the point. I have a reseller but they have no information or they can´t give me an information that shows me on a paper that is truth what everbody is telling.

    Everything i want is the certainty that i do the right invest in SW for the next +5 years. And my only fear is creating parts and assemblies which we have to created again when we want a Software in next years which is up-to-date cause SW as we know now is stagnate …probably…

    Tom

  • Tom

    and I guess Jeff Ray choosed the wrong words. What he said might be unclear and left to much space for more interpretation…

    or he was too soon/early with this information …

    hope everything happen like you all of you told us

  • http://twitter.com/matthewwest Matthew West

    Like I said, we’re going to continue to develop and support the current version of SolidWorks (alongside the new version) until there’s no longer enough demand from our customers to continue doing so. So if you’re thinking about moving to SolidWorks now and wonder if it will still be a viable product in five years, the answer is yes.

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